Caesar - Tyrant or Man of the People?

topic posted Fri, September 23, 2005 - 10:37 PM by  Spidra
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I started this book some time ago but have been unable to finish it because I have had to move from place to place for the last year and my copy has gotten buried. But however interesting I'd find it, I don't have the grounding in Roman history to read the book with a critical eye towards the author's thesis. Has anyone here read it and have any thoughts to share?
posted by:
Spidra
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  • Re: Caesar - Tyrant or Man of the People?

    Sun, December 4, 2005 - 3:16 AM
    I haven't read it, but I would say:
    Long live Sylla, down with Caesar!

    I

    PS just read Plutarch. He is a good souce for this matter
    • Re: Caesar - Tyrant or Man of the People?

      Tue, June 20, 2006 - 9:28 AM
      If you mean "Sulla," I very much disagree -- Sulla was the man more than any one else responsible for the fall of the Republic. One could argue that it was of course due to historical forces and that the true warning signs were the careers and fates of the Gracchi brothers, but it was Sulla who first instituted a multi-year dictatorship and abused his power over that period to dispose of political enemeis over a long time frame rather than in a single spasm of civic violence. He was never an "Emperor" (the use of "Imperator" to mean a single supreme and lifelong leader would come a half-century or so later) but he created the role; he showed that the Roman constitution was impotent against anyone with the gall to seize power and the troops to keep it.
  • Re: Caesar - Tyrant or Man of the People?

    Wed, December 7, 2005 - 3:39 PM
    If Zinn praises it it must be a socialist history. Therefore suspect.
    • Re: Caesar - Tyrant or Man of the People?

      Sat, December 24, 2005 - 5:37 AM
      Equality forced by state is against the evolution of the society. He was a plebs politician – therefore a commy! There is no difference between Stalin, Hitler, Sadam and all those popular politicians. The goal was always the dictatorship. Result is the decay of the state and destruction of the independent intellectuals and nobility. One who is popular among the poor people is always bad for the democratic development of the country. On the other hand unpopular politicians do some good changes for the society.

      I
      • Re: Caesar - Tyrant or Man of the People?

        Wed, December 28, 2005 - 7:05 PM

        *One who is popular among the poor people is always bad for the democratic development of the country.*

        What is the basis of this statement?


        • Re: Caesar - Tyrant or Man of the People?

          Sat, December 31, 2005 - 7:26 AM
          Demagogy is the basis for repression.
          Worst politicians are the most popular ones.
          Unpopular politicians are taking the risk in changing things for the better…
          Being popular is easy…

          I
          • Re: Caesar - Tyrant or Man of the People?

            Sat, December 31, 2005 - 11:59 AM

            I disagree with your premise...
            history is as peppered with unpopular politicians that changed things for the better, as it is with popular politicians that changed things for the better.

            It seems to me that a politician’s rhetorical style is a completely different issue as to whether they will lead well.
            Yes, the masses are often fooled by pretty oration, but it is not logical to say that just because a politician is eloquent, they cannot rule justly
            So, I don't agree you can say in all fairness, that "Demagogy is the basis for repression."
            It seems to me an incomplete assesment... like "Money is the root of all evil."
            • Re: Caesar - Tyrant or Man of the People?

              Sun, January 1, 2006 - 5:58 AM
              Well,

              I think this is political difference…
              It is true that some societies are based on One Monarch-One religion-One God…
              Personally I’m more democratic. I think that Roman Republic was good as long as the people of Rome were predominantly Roman… As soon as the other people gained Roman citizenship in significant numbers it turned the state in more Asiatic type… ‘One Monarch-One religion-One God’

              I
              • Re: Caesar - Tyrant or Man of the People?

                Tue, June 20, 2006 - 11:34 AM
                The Roman republic was not a democracy. Don't mistake "Republic" for "democracy" or anything like it. The people didn't have all that much say in matters regardless of the form of government in power at the time.
                • Re: Caesar - Tyrant or Man of the People?

                  Thu, June 22, 2006 - 9:47 AM
                  Depends what you mean by "the people." There was public opinion and it had a very strong influence on the realities of power all the way until somewhere in the middle of the Time of Troubles (3rd Century CE). This was because the Roman upper classes had considerable influence even in the Empire -- Emperors who governed in defiance of the Senate often found themselves falling to Senatorial conspiracies. Witness the fates of Caligula and Nero, in particular.

                  Now the Senatorial class had connections by blood, friendship and patronage to the middle classes, the Equites or "Knights." These in turn had connections, and these connections all the way down the social ladder -- and a lot of what went on in Rome was a matter of politics communicated through these webs of connections. Wives and to some extent even some slaves had influence in this network.

                  Thus, even though neither the Roman Republic nor the Roman Empire was "democratic" by modern standards, they were most certainly res publicas by the standards of the Ancient World. The real changes come with (1) the transition from Republic to Empire, which renders both Senate and Assembly less important, and (2) the 3rd-century Time of Troubles, which makes the key to power purely the control of a big loyal army.

                  From the Time of Troubles on, "public opinion" in the broader sense became less important, because increasingly a disarmed populace was helpless before the demands of this or that jumped-up general with an army willing to kill any number of dissenting civilians to please their commander. Even the great Emperors of the 4th century onward, such as Constantine the Great, were just exceptionally _competent_ commanders of said loyal armies -- they were no longer really "public officials" in the sense of the Early to Middle Western Emperors.

                  - Jordan

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