Tribe.net. Local Connections George http://greecerome.tribe.net/thread/a15b04ba-4b9e-4b01-b6d8-eeeb99549f23#e7c73137-cdf9-4f25-9587-41e61f76a20a 2007-02-27T05:56:54Z 2007-02-27T05:56:54Z

I had been on top of that hill in 1995. I saw the ruins then. It over looks an island called the donkey. Behind that island sat two world war II torpedos. That hill would have been a great place for a warrior such as Ajax's (Iadias) to live. Militeristically speaking. The hill is a little left then center from a beach, that is coved by an island. To the left and right of that hill are mountains. left of the hill where ajax's home or palace is found on top of that mountain is yet another archaeology site i saw. it over looks a beach called petiacony(flint rock) . In ancient times fint rock was considered good luck. I belive some where over there you will find the castle of Ajax's father. It will be in between pertseria and petiacony. one cove over from pietiacony there is a vally and yet another beach seperated by another hill. The the hill you can find an old abandon home where they use to collect sap from the pine trees to make rubber. there you can find a fresh water well if you need a cool drink. On that beach you can find white marble slabs cut perfectly. That i think; was left to be picked up for construction of the parthenon. Also interesting to note is that euripdies lived in a cave over looking persteria beach it too is coved by an island in that island you will find another cave. In the mountains of salamina there is also yet another archaeology site. i have been thinking about it latey. I think it could be an ancient ampitheater. On another note; I think the finding of Rames armor is quiet interesting considering ajax wanted achilles armor. Do you think that this could mean that Ajaxs was an armor collector? I would like to investigate how the sea level has risen or fallen from ancient times in the area of salamina it might lead to further findings in underwater caves around the island. many years ago i read a report about where most greek castles were located on in relation to the islands. Thats what led me to look in those areas. That and the local people helped me too. They have heard stories passed on for many generations and also told me where to go.There is yet more archaeolgy sites most of salinya, and abalakia (agropa gropa). In fact which is sad a dirt road runs across an ancient wall in ablakia next to a metal work shop. I have also heard that luters have bulldosed the ancient burial mound in salinya looking for treasures. I would love to be able to go all over greece just finding sites and documenting them. There is so much. To me it is an archaeolgical mecca. I am happy to know i have memories of being in the place now known as ajax's temple prior to it's discovery. I had friends that use to play on cables that came down from the hill its on. I also drank water from the well right below that hill. I wounder the history of that well now. and what might be in it.

George 2007-02-27T05:56:54Z Kate http://greecerome.tribe.net/thread/a15b04ba-4b9e-4b01-b6d8-eeeb99549f23#7f6b1477-7a24-46b9-8860-f7e06262301f 2007-02-08T04:51:57Z 2007-02-08T04:51:57Z

I know... The media has had an irritating habit of promoting virtually any underwater find as *gasp* "Atlantis Found?!"

Kate 2007-02-08T04:51:57Z Jordan http://greecerome.tribe.net/thread/a15b04ba-4b9e-4b01-b6d8-eeeb99549f23#a018637d-6122-413f-99ea-c0ec55da19a2 2006-06-25T04:18:01Z 2006-06-25T04:18:01Z

Indeed, especially when one considers that Ajax (if real, and I see no _particular_ reason to either affirm or to doubt his reality) would have been merely one lord among many in Mycenaean Greece, the chance that any particular palace or great hall would have been his is fairly small. On the other hand, if it was of the right period and in the right location, it very well may have belonged to the noble family from which the legendary character was drawn ... - Jordan

Jordan 2006-06-25T04:18:01Z Jordan http://greecerome.tribe.net/thread/a15b04ba-4b9e-4b01-b6d8-eeeb99549f23#c7862e27-4359-4e14-8eb3-d3d55ab9ba8d 2006-06-25T04:15:02Z 2006-06-25T04:15:02Z

Fran said: > Most respectable grant-giving organizations would see right through any project that had "Search for the Outhouse of Achilles" as the objective. < "Sweet-voiced Muses, lend me your golden tongues. For I sing of the constipation of Achilles ..." ROFLMAO!!! Sorry, but I couldn't resist when you said that :D - Jordan

Jordan 2006-06-25T04:15:02Z Ms. Em http://greecerome.tribe.net/thread/a15b04ba-4b9e-4b01-b6d8-eeeb99549f23#b448e5e9-628f-4fae-a868-2839f4185134 2006-04-08T07:24:07Z 2006-04-08T07:24:07Z

Um, I'm speaking on the experience of working on excavations in Israel and Turkey and discussing funding with the supervisors and some of the donors. Research projects that are marketable are good for universities and good for museums. Your example of "the outhouse of Achilles" is clearly extreme and argumentative. Projects that have potential bearing on our interpretation of well know texts or that may related to well known figures of history are highly marketable to the public and thus bring more money to the organizations that fund these kinds of projects. These kinds of projects are often based on "real research" and use the angle of "the outhouse of Achilles" precisely because they can be twisted to sell. I never presumed that the public knows much about ancient history. I simply said they love it. This is where the money comes from. As a direct example, archaeological research in cities to which Paul wrote epistles and/or visited often finds funding (in enormous amounts) from fundamentalist/evangelical Christian groups searching for information about Paul or some building Paul touched. This means that researchers can use the funding to survey and excavate additional areas or use new techniques (magnetic resonance, core drilling, exploratory trenches). The Paul angle gets funding that covers research that might not otherwise be funded. Obviously there are stronger and weaker ways if interrpeting archaeological data in relation to texts and known historical figures, however, I think it's fair to say that the average person doesn't really care about the measurements, statistics and theories invoved in determinging whether or not "Achilles" took a shit in this "outhouse." They don't care about the levels, stratigraphy etc. In fact, they probably don't even want to know theory of mytho-history and whether or not "Achilles" was an actual human or not. There are incredible theoretical and practical problems with using archaeology to prove a text. I would never suggest otherwise. In the case of the mythical figure of Ajax, is the question *really* whether or not Ajax was real (which we can't prove either way) OR whether or not we can prove this city was his OR is the issue at whether or not this city is dateable to the hypothetical time of the hypothetical Trojan War and what it might teach us about the war? The legend of the Trojan war is largely believed to be based on an actual war, although the Iliad is clearly mytho-history. My point is this: As a researcher in ancient history and in archaeology, I know that funding excavations is a huge problem. One of the things we can do as researchers (and one of things that the media does, whether we like it or not) is to use the "bling" of what might sell to inspire the public to learn more about our work and donate money or time to the organizations that fund this kind of research. Many excavations are run by museums and universities and those institutions benefit from the publicity.

Ms. Em 2006-04-08T07:24:07Z francesca http://greecerome.tribe.net/thread/a15b04ba-4b9e-4b01-b6d8-eeeb99549f23#8b068462-b2ab-4fed-8d7b-d41e93de53f6 2006-04-08T01:07:29Z 2006-04-08T01:07:29Z

"By linking the archaeological finds with texts or historical figures (or eve quasi-historical figures) the the researchers can find more funding. People are much more likely to donate to and grant-giving instituations are much more likely fo fund these kinds of ventures." Um, on what experience or research are you basing that? Most respectable grant-giving organizations would see right through any project that had "Search for the Outhouse of Achilles" as the objective. "The media and the public love these kinds of ties." Agreed. But they don't know too much about ancient history, do they?

francesca 2006-04-08T01:07:29Z Ms. Em http://greecerome.tribe.net/thread/a15b04ba-4b9e-4b01-b6d8-eeeb99549f23#dfa285fb-bc1a-4794-aeca-41382a312588 2006-04-07T22:49:26Z 2006-04-07T22:49:12Z

By linking the archaeological finds with texts or historical figures (or eve quasi-historical figures) the the researchers can find more funding. People are much more likely to donate to and grant-giving instituations are much more likely fo fund these kinds of ventures. The media and the public love these kinds of ties. It makes money and money makes research. It's sad, but true (speaking as an archaeological fieldworker).

Ms. Em 2006-04-07T22:49:12Z CRMgroupie http://greecerome.tribe.net/thread/a15b04ba-4b9e-4b01-b6d8-eeeb99549f23#e278eaab-d128-4b63-b4e0-14f2129cc43f 2006-04-07T16:30:11Z 2006-04-07T16:30:11Z

I know really though, I hang my head in shame everytime they attatch a name like that to a find, honestly I think we would all be just as happy that they found the place, do we have to link it up with a probable literary character?

CRMgroupie 2006-04-07T16:30:11Z francesca http://greecerome.tribe.net/thread/a15b04ba-4b9e-4b01-b6d8-eeeb99549f23#59adedfc-4c4c-4b41-90e0-241ff569b23d 2006-04-07T16:06:16Z 2006-04-07T16:06:16Z

The connection with Ajax is just asinine. Other than that, it's a significant find.

francesca 2006-04-07T16:06:16Z CRMgroupie http://greecerome.tribe.net/thread/a15b04ba-4b9e-4b01-b6d8-eeeb99549f23#c55f8758-e057-490a-b2d7-d143d783d44e 2006-04-07T02:19:03Z 2006-04-07T02:19:03Z

a 3,200 year old palace was found on Salamis about six years ago, and this is just a recap plus some talk about it being Ajax's kingdom back in the day. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060330/ap_on_sc/greece_ajax_palace_2;_ylt=Agk8IGfpbIPrY_C3.c.rlQpFeQoB;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

CRMgroupie 2006-04-07T02:19:03Z